PersonalNotes
************************************************************

 

************************************************************

 

 

maybe not a good example

 

 

Future Plans

At some point I need to capitalize on the fact that Peter urges the wife to suffer in the same way as slaves endure injustice.

 

Eph

Notice these things: Order, Profound, Amazing Submission, Martyr-level Love and protection

 

 

 

 

 

---------

This is temporarily removed for reconsiderations…

---------

 

Submission and Abuse

A wife is greater than a slave, but even concerning slaves God says:

 

Eph 6:9 WEB  You masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with him.

 

Col 3:25 WEB  But he who does wrong will receive again for the wrong that he has done, and there is no partiality.

 

How much more does this apply to a wife? The husband is to be the master of the wife, and this is taught in many places including 1 Pet 3:6 using “lord” [κυριον (kúrion)] which to us is comparable to “Sir” or “Master.”

In 1Ti 3:4-5 (quoted above) a husband who qualifies for leadership must be “ruling”

We can also mention many others including Deu 24:1 and Jer 3:14 where the word for “married” comes from the word “ba‛al” or “master.” So becoming a woman’s husband means becoming her “Master.” This does not however mean that he has a right to abuse his wife (Eph 6:9; 1Pe 3:6-7), but a responsibility to protect her, and give his life for her best interests and greatest benefit at all times (Eph 5:22-33).

God is always wrathful towards people who oppress, and is specifically set against husbands who “deal treacherously” and “violently” with their wives. In Malachi chapter two they found no repentance even though they were crying at the altar because they had not made things right after their horrible treatment of their wives.

 

-------

Eventual addition:

 

I was thinking about what I said about “beating slaves” in the OT and how that was not the same in the New Covenant:

 

Pro 29:19 WEB  A servant can't be corrected by words. Though he understands, yet he will not respond.

 

And we might compare this with another verse:

 

Pro 26:3 WEB  A whip for the horse, A bridle for the donkey, And a rod for the back of fools!

 

But under the New Covenant there seems to be a different attitude:

 

Eph 6:5-9 WEB  Servants, be obedient to those who according to the flesh are your masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as to Christ;  6  not in the way of service only when eyes are on you, as men-pleasers; but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;  7  with good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men;  8  knowing that whatever good thing each one does, he will receive the same again from the Lord, whether he is bound or free.  9  You masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with him.

 

--

1Pe 3:1-7 EMTV  Wives, likewise, subject yourselves to your own husbands…  2  when they observe your chaste conduct with fear…  6  as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, of whom you became children, when you do good and are not afraid of any terror. 

 

> Reverence husbands fearing God, not because they fear the husband directly, but through fearing God they reverence their husbands. Not independently, but in subjection.

 

--

 

This charge to “give up threatening” seems to be based on the same principal as no longer fighting, because he says specifically, “he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven…” Just as Jesus says:

 

Joh 18:36 WEB  …"My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight, that I wouldn't be delivered to the Jews. But now my kingdom is not from here."

 

The geographical change in the location of God’s “kingdom” from the Holy Land to Heaven has something directly to do with the change of the way we fight:

 

2Co 10:4 KJV  (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

 

I also said that this treatment of slaves was similar for wives. But as I was thinking about it I also considered that that statement could have been misunderstood.

I would not want anyone to think that abuse has ever, or will ever, be condoned by the Bible. God is always wrathful towards people who oppress, and is specifically set against husbands who “deal treacherously” and “violently” with their wives. In Mal 2 they found no repentance even though they were crying at the altar because they had not made things right after their horrible treatment of their wives.

 

Mal 2:13-17 KJ2000  And this have you done again, covering the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, because he regards not the offering any more, or receives it with good will at your hand.  14  Yet you say, Why? Because the LORD has been witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously: yet is she your companion, and the wife of your covenant.  15  And did not he make them one? Yet had he the remnant of the spirit. And why one? That he might seek a godly offspring. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.  16  For the LORD, the God of Israel, says that he hates putting away [i.e. divorce]: For one covers violence with his garment, says the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that you deal not treacherously.  17  You have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet you say, How have we wearied him? When you say, Every one that does evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delights in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?

 

Having seen enough abuse in relationships, I would say that my experience agrees with the Bible that no one who practices abuse has any chance of going to Heaven unless they seriously repent.

I get deeply mad about abuse.

That having been said, strangely enough, it looks like God not only makes a distinction between abuse and punishment with children, but during the time of the Old Covenant, it looks like He did the same thing for wives and servants. He indicates this in passing by comparing His (just) punishment of the nations with a husband’s treatment of his wife:

 

Isa 19:16 KJV  In that day shall Egypt be like unto women: and it shall be afraid and fear because of the shaking of the hand of the LORD of hosts, which he shaketh over it.

 

The question here is not “if” husbands disciplined (or even abused) their wives. But the question is “how is it that God is comparing His actions to anything like this”? But still this is a theme throughout Isaiah, especially toward Israel:

 

Isa_5:25; Isa_9:12; Isa_9:17-21; Isa_10:4; Isa_14:26-27; Isa_23:11;

 

Isa 9:13, 17 WEB  Yet the people have not turned to him who struck them, neither have they sought Yahweh of Hosts.  17  …For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

 

Isa 14:26-27 KJV  This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.  27  For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?

 

Isa 23:11 WEB  He has stretched out his hand over the sea, he has shaken the kingdoms…

 

Some Summary

So what I gather from the Bible is that abuse has always been eternally sinful, but there was a time (i.e. during the Old Testament) that punishment extended beyond children. In the New Covenant, there seems to be virtually no other punishment than children given for believers to enforce. (A small exception would be Jesus driving out the money changers, which is hard to apply today without the same temple).

--

He specifically reaffirms the punishment of children for the new covenant by saying:

Heb 12:5-13 WEB  and you have forgotten the exhortation which reasons with you as with children, "My son, don't take lightly the chastening of the Lord, Nor faint when you are reproved by him;  6  For whom the Lord loves, he chastens, And scourges every son whom he receives."  7  It is for discipline that you endure. God deals with you as with children, for what son is there whom his father doesn't discipline?  8  But if you are without discipline, whereof all have been made partakers, then are you illegitimate, and not children.  9  Furthermore, we had the fathers of our flesh to chasten us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much rather be in subjection to the Father of spirits, and live?  10  For they indeed, for a few days, punished us as seemed good to them; but he for our profit, that we may be partakers of his holiness.  11  All chastening seems for the present to be not joyous but grievous; yet afterward it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been exercised thereby.  12  Therefore, lift up the hands that hang down and the feeble knees,  13  and make straight paths for your feet, that that which is lame may not be dislocated, but rather be healed.

 

He shows that even among the christian community there was the punishment of children when He says:

“ 6  …for what son is there whom his father doesn't discipline?... 9  Furthermore, we had the fathers of our flesh to chasten us, and we paid them respect.”

- They did not even know a son among them that did not get punished, even so far as “chastening.”

--

For husbands and wives, this is unexpected and sobering.  Obviously there are a lot of things to be thankful about the New Covenant, and this is probably one that you would not have thought of before, unless it was brought to your attention. At the same time the Old Covenant still speaks to “social justice” (Rom 1:32) and the best thing to learn might be a sense of adjustment to our default assumptions about a woman’s role.

Under a covenant like ours “threatening” is not an option for husbands as it was in the Old one. How then ought a woman to act under the New Covenant?  Should she be less reverent now that physical repercussions are prohibited, or should there be all the more response of voluntarily reverence?

We said that this was comparable to the change in “slave discipline,” and this is taught in many places including 1 Pet 3:6 using “lord” [κυριον (kúrion)] which to us is comparable to “Sir” or “master.” We also mentioned Deu 24:1 and Jer 3:14 the word for “married” comes from the word “ba‛al” or “master”:

 

H1166 בּעל bâ‛al baw-al'

A primitive root; to be master; hence (as denominative from H1167) to marry: - Beulah have dominion (over), be husband, marry (-ried, X wife).

 

So the Biblical/ Hebrew concept of marriage was “becoming master of” a wife, and God is not ignorant of this because He uses some interesting plays on words with this when talking to Israel about His marriage to them.

 

So the change in the treatment of slaves would imply the same change in the treatment of wives, and it says that the change should produce eagerness and sincerity:

 

Eph 6:5-9 WEB  Servants, be obedient to those who according to the flesh are your masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as to Christ;  6  not in the way of service only when eyes are on you, as men-pleasers; but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;  7  with good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men;

 

This is exactly what we already read about wives in 1Peter 3 last night.

 

I’m sure that there are other important things to get out of this, but this is a place to start.

 

I hope all of this clarifies some things.

--

---

---

 

Man clinging to a woman, as a MAN

 

 

The more voluntarily subjected a wife is to her husband, the more deeply she is welded to his insides before he can even help it. If you can jump right in to subjection, you will jump right into his heart before he realizes or thinks to open the door.

- I like Jackie’s attitude: He can’t stay me at me for too long

 

If punishment were still permitted:

For godliness…

- it would explain a lot of things

- just having your face facing that direction, would not make him love you less, but profoundly and deeply more (why? subjection)

- should a woman now who is not punished stand confidently if a man raises his hand, when God expected Egypt to react?

Isa 19:16 Brenton  But in that day the Egyptians shall be as women, in fear and in trembling because of the hand of the Lord of hosts…

 

- it would more closely reflect Christ and the church

- it would have to be that it would continue (I think) in the exact same sense as it has with children continuing to be punished, because otherwise: a “child is not different at all from a slave” – and we don’t seem to be allowed to beat them… (unless beating without threatening? I think not. God threatens)

- younger women were married to older men to have more of that kind of relationship

- it would not be so difficult in a godly set up, but the problem comes BIG time in an ungodly one

> either way: “WITHOUT fear or amazement”

-WHY?  If a child crumbles under fear, then he will also compromise under fear – this is not an option for a woman of God who must keep truth to her own heart

-what is bad is if a woman did not care if it was scriptural or not, but sought out someone who did not believe it for the sake of “preference” and “safety”

-either way a woman should still be subjected under a “crewel master,” but I her life I in danger, flee.

 

 

 

 

Rap “Need” is Defeated

This is profound:

- subjection to punishment would undercut and replace the perversion that drives a man to rape

Practically speaking:

- A man would never think to rape anyone if he had the need met of a fully subjected wife who would even take punishment. That would chase away any such thought.

-You have undercut any room the devil may use in a man to drive him to this

But you say: only perverts have that type of mindset

- but you don’t understand!

- I’ve seen various men of extremely different dispositions who have no desire to hurt anyone being driven by this same need and torment that craves rape. I’ve wondered for years… how is that met in the right way?

The BIG problem is:

- Rap is like murder

- To a woman it is a monster, to men it is driven out of horrible death of unmet possession

- Men are not at all innocent, but this is the direction it comes out of

- Without justifying any sin, still, often you must understand it to oppose and defeat it

- Those who rape are fully darkened so that they will murder another to console what is tormentingly missing, (like the murderer of those school girls in PA who had previously lost his daughter).

- those who do cannot do it without being overrun with demonic torment and chains. Comparable to Judas who in torment and possession betrayed Jesus and then ran off a cliff.

- Men don’t always realize it: they don’t let themselves believe it is a monster, especially if she gives even a little hint of leeway

- even some men who abhor it, have this very same torment that could potentially drive them to it

- so don’t think ‘he would never want to hurt me’ - because that is not how he thinks of it

- He is living in an immoral culture that is denying the virtue of women, so how is it wrong to him if he defiles a person’s body when cleanness is not what either of them is seeking?

- in the same way those who are violated, themselves, always get trapped in bad relationships (homosexuals, or men who are scoundrels, and women who are violated usually end up with dishonest uncaring men)

- so also men, through torment, are driven toward this very thing toward others that would kill a woman

- fist they need to hear loud and clear: YOU ARE MURDERING, but once they have halted we need to do some serious work to remove that nature

- Rape is not just a “don’t be a pervert” problem. Some people who you think are normal have this type of problem. The need must be addressed in the right way to secure the passion from ever bursting out in the disaster of rape.

- the relationships in this culture are not giving a solution to any of these problems.

- Profound subjection, profoundly fixes, profound problems and produces profoundly unexpected and beautiful results.

But some may feel: “I don’t just want to be an answer to a need” but

- how would it turn a man to love a woman if she fit so perfectly in his life?

- now she would be welcomed into his heart and life

 

Story:

I know a man in family who at first violated a woman and used to vehemently oppose me, but then got a wife who was ridiculously subjected to him: He eventually turned and is completely ashamed and broken over what he did.

 

 

 

I wonder:

How would Jesus handle disciplining children?

How would He handle “ruling His own house” (on earth)

 

Difficulty on guy side of things is how to rule in cretin cases... yet the Bible absolutely demands this...????

I know how to rule bad children, but not bad wives...

what if you were married to unsaved wife? How can you rule? Even more: how would you "punish"?

 

Difference between church and Prostitute
-Arrows aimed at face

-punish them to their face to destroy them

 

But on the other hand Miriam:

if a father spit in her face, unclean for certain days

 

Punishment purifies and removes cancer

"so that all of the churches will know... that I am he who searches"